Workplace Weekly Episode One: IWD, 300 yrs to Equality & The World Is A Workplace
Workplace Weekly Episode One: IWD, 300 yrs to Equality & The...
Wed, Mar 08, 2023 8:34AM • 51:13
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
international women's day, workplace, women, people, senior management, problem, gender equality, little bit, person, listening, years, question, female, tampons, support, create, tweet, day, stories, thought
SPEAKERS
Fanny Wandel, Kate Bailey, Google Lady, B Roll Video
Google Lady 00:00
You're listening to workplaces weekly, covering workplaces and labor activism and trying to have a remotely decent time doing it. Call us, Craig, David, cause we are born to do it. Let's do this thing.
Fanny Wandel 00:27
I'm Fanny one.
Kate Bailey 00:29
And I'm Kay Bailey.
Fanny Wandel 00:30
And you're listening to workplace weekly
Kate Bailey 00:32
podcast, analyzing workplaces, work, culture, and labor activism through topical stories and interviews.
Fanny Wandel 00:39
Kate, this is a new podcast for us. Do you want to tell us why we wanted to do this?
Kate Bailey 00:43
Yes, I do, actually. And it's been a desperately long two years because it's always been in the hen hot mission to create media about what places problematically for us, we got a little mixed up and a little industry business with the crop and thing as we all know, and that really kind of derailed the overall mission that we had with producing podcasts about what places which is to produce stuff that weren't getting sued, which is educational, helpful for people. And now that we've sort of cut our teeth as well, I guess a little bit in the craft beer industry coming out the other side of that I'm just realizing, everything we experienced and learned and created media about in the last two years, naturally lends itself to the broader workplace dialogue. So workplace weekly is the place where we can get all of these stories together, bring a new, fresh voice to the workplace, be it because I think the media is often under resourced, but also they're not workplace experts. And on the other side, we've also got workplace experts who speak a different language to media people who are, you know, we're in our own vocational world. So creating this space is about bringing those two worlds together with a unique voice, hopefully, finding stories, which are compelling and entertaining for people. It shouldn't be dry. Yeah. But also trying to have that educational element where we can sort of help people to understand what's going on in workplaces, because no one's happy. Everyone's feeling some sense of crisis. And hopefully, from that, there's some understanding to push the conversation forward. I guess like, what are your thoughts, as I say all of that about the workplace beat and the need for workplace beat funny?
Fanny Wandel 02:38
I mean, absolutely. I agree with every single point you brought up, I think it was really important to cast a wider net, we had such a niche focus on craft beer. And what we saw throughout all that was, the problem was the same no matter what industry we were talking about. And then as you say, there was a serious lack of space for people to inform themselves and maybe practice a bit of critical thinking. Yeah, yeah. So
Kate Bailey 03:05
what do you like when you say critical thinking? Like, what? What do you think, like people? Like how can people approach this this subject matter differently? When it comes to that?
Fanny Wandel 03:16
Yeah, I think it's, you know, thinking about it for myself, my own reasons for participating in this, I think it's removing mine and your role of kind of holding people's hands throughout an issue that they have within the workplace. And this is more about providing nuance, and finding all relevant stories and things within pop culture that we can maybe relate to, and really providing a tool where people can further their own education and maybe have a bit of introspection. Yes,
Kate Bailey 03:51
yes. And I think that that's important, because a lot of people that we've dealt with who have come to us with cases, and there's been hundreds, a huge part of their healing has been understanding what was happening to them and around them at the time that they were experiencing these things in the workplace. Yes. So maybe we can do a little bit of pre emptive mitigation work. Yeah, in that regard, and trying to sort of break all of this down. And the good news is because, you know, this is a fresh podcast, and we're going to be able to actually do fun stuff on this podcast, because knock on wood, we are not going to get sued for anything we do or say on this. Absolutely. When I saw that March 8, was a potential to launch this show. I was like, we need to do that. Because we have International Women's Day is one of these topics where it's like, as a woman, as I grew up with this day, I was like, Yes, I'm showing up for it because you know, yeah, what are we got? But as corporate companies have realized the power of like performative support and social media and like what that little cocktail can do for their brand. Yeah, we've definitely seen International Women's Day sort of take on a different, a different meaning in the society that we inhabit today. So, we are definitely going to get into writing the biggest corporate International Women's Day fuck ups that we've seen in some recent years. And later on in this episode, we're also going to give you a history lesson on how International Women's Day is completely connected to the workplace movement, and women. And we're also going to be tackling our first workplace conundrum in workplace service.
Fanny Wandel 05:48
Let's get into it. Right, KB is International Women's Day. It's a day where I really want to feel good, but most of the time, I also feel pretty shitty. And to represent that feeling, I want to kick us off with our little baby treat for everyone. And here comes some examples for International Women's date fails from companies. KB kick us off
Kate Bailey 06:15
with pleasure. So we're going all the way back to 2020 to New Zealand, rugby has apologized for his handling of a Twitter post that was intended to celebrate International Women's Day, but instead drew major back lash major backlash. The All Blacks were criticized for the tribute, which said the team would be forever grateful to all the women in our lives that allow us to play the game we love. However, the post contain no mention of the New Zealand women's rugby team who are World Cup title holders, and have won five of the past six tournaments. Many were quick to point out the error in judgment including seven Reese and Aaron Smith among those pitched in the tweet. Given the both the players have controversial paths involving women. Now, we're gonna stay in 2022. This one comes from The Guardian, and it says here in the headline, women are quote, thriving in the Met if you ignore all the misogyny, so in the guardian in an interview to mark International Women's Day, the National Police Chief's Council national lead for violence against women and girls, Maggie Blythe also highlighted the murder of Sarah ever robbed by a serving officer as a watershed moment and criticize the dismissal of violent offices as a few bad apples. Now, just some quick context here. For those who aren't aware, earlier this year, this year 2023, the Met had to issue a series of apologies and a series of communication essentially apologizing for the fact that one of the now most prolific serial rapists in the UK was actually one of their serving police officers. And that the protocols to actually bring this officer to some form of accountability had been failing for many years. So it does make that tweet particularly poignant. And if they got backlash, then you can't imagine what they get if they try at this much aid. But let's keep an eye on their Twitter feed because the men are just no one for supporting women, no problems. Now we're going back into time, further back all the way back. And you're gonna think it's 1800s. But it's not this is 2021. I don't know. So in 2021, Burger King UK came under fire for tweeting. Women belong in the kitchen on International Women's Day. So basically, this is what they tweet. There's no other context. But then eventually, there are some threaded tweets, where the fast food giant pointed out the lack of female chefs in the restaurant business. So they follow on from women belong in the kitchen to if they want to, of course, yet only 20% of chefs are women were on a mission to change the gender ratio in the restaurant industry by empowering female employees with the opportunity to pursue a culinary career. It doesn't get any richer than that. It doesn't get any tone deaf than that. I cannot comprehend that a group of people sat around a literal like workspace and said, This is it. This is how we're going to support women this Yeah, let's do it. Hey, hey, hey. Alright, Fanny, what do you got for us?
Fanny Wandel 09:40
We're gonna stay within the fast food space, apparently. But we're gonna go further back and now we are in 2018. This is where Reba McIntyre was featured in a KFC commercial, and she was the very first female Colonel Sanders for KFC.
B Roll Video 10:00
Luna de nada, de singer and actress is the first ever female to get meat over into the kernel. While the kind of
Fanny Wandel 10:10
the messaging in this or the purpose of all of this is kind of lost on me and you can you fill in any gaps for me at all.
Kate Bailey 10:17
There is not one gap that I can fill in here funny because I don't really understand what is empowering about having a woman dress up as a man in particular, this man as the center point of the campaign, or as a way to raise awareness. I think this is the kind of campaign that probably could have worked in any other context. But it's that same critical error of trying to make it perform for the audience of women's empowerment that makes it fall completely flat. Yeah. And Reba, like what do you do and
Fanny Wandel 10:49
Reba, honestly, paycheck could not have been that good. Oh, Reeves. We're gonna move on to McDonald's and McDonald's in the very same year 2018. They wanted to celebrate International Women's Day in one location for that one day by inverting their famous Golden m into a golden W. It didn't go over? Well, it's hard to imagine why, especially when MTV did it the year before? And they could have maybe take a take a little hint from that. But all in all, what can we say other than these are some pretty lackluster attempts at making me feel included.
Kate Bailey 11:29
I think you're 100% correct there. And I think that there's a reason why it does sort of, you know, people say oh, they're hysterical. Nothing will make them happy. We're just trying to do a nice thing. And it's like, what Donald's or whatever, you're fucking cold now, like you saw in 2017. Like someone had to see that this inversion of the letter was like, you know, going to be the thing that like, was the supportive thing. And then it just falls flat on its face. Yeah. You saw it as like, presumably. And if you didn't see it, what's wrong with you? It's like, it's not a part of the problem. And it just goes to show as well with all of these companies that it's it's never just International Women's Day, they can do the song and dance, but like, how about every other day, including International Women's Day? Yeah, our rights and our needs are not being met in the workplace. So I think another great example, and this also just helps prove that, you know, Elon Musk is not the only person ruining space for women. Obviously, NASA were well ahead of the curve, though. Can you tell us a little bit about Sally Ride?
Fanny Wandel 12:37
Absolutely. I had a lot of fun googling Sally the other day, and refreshing my memory a little bit. So Sally Ride, went to Stanford and was obviously an astronaut for NASA. She is the third woman who has ever been in space, and the first American woman and I believe her flight was in 1983. And leading up to that flight, she obviously had to sit down and do some interviews and news conferences. And the questions that she was faced with was they weren't very similar to her male counterparts. So she got asked questions like, How is this flight going to affect her reproductive organs? And next, you had people asking her if when things went wrong at work, did she weep? Finally, you had sponsors wanting to provide Sally with very feminine specific kits and products. One of these was a makeup kit, because obviously, that's probably on top of her list of priorities when she's out on a space mission,
Kate Bailey 13:32
dude, I mean, if you're on that space station, you know, you ain't got you ain't doing an asteroid walk without a full face of makeup, right, basically, and what have you got abducted, and you look like shit,
Fanny Wandel 13:41
ya know, and get this because they weren't, you know, they were really, really trying to make sure that she was comfortable up there. So they also want to provide her with tampons for her six day flight. 100 tampons is what they thought Sally needed for six days.
Kate Bailey 13:57
I mean, I mean, what's going on?
Fanny Wandel 13:59
Scientists?
Kate Bailey 14:00
Do you think they when they suggested the 100 tampons? Do you think they were like 100 supers or like 100 lights? Like do you think that they were even in that realm of being able to comprehend you know, this exchange that they were having?
Fanny Wandel 14:14
I really don't think so. But for any future reference mix sizes, like honestly, I gotta be accommodating.
Kate Bailey 14:20
I know. Let's do this. And like, can I just say there is a great pot of internet history around the 100 tampons that we're going to share right here. Remember when NASA sent
B Roll Video 14:31
them into space for only six days and they gave 100 And that's Will that be enough? These are our nation's greatest minds. They On a rocket scientist 100 100 I can picture it now.
Kate Bailey 15:12
And there you have it. 100 tampon six days greatest minds wild. So I like now that we're sort of like stepping out and thinking about all those abstract workplaces, I guess you could say, I always think about the workplace that is in front of us, but we never call it a workplace. And that is the workplaces of women who are in the public eyes, celebrities, essentially. So you know, anyone that's in that space, the workplaces are in front of us. Every time we talk about a woman were essentially, in the in the public eye, we're essentially talking about her in her workplace, right, always. So I was particularly fascinated by the Pamela Anderson documentary that recently came on Netflix. And I thought it was an incredibly poignant and insightful look at the workplace that a woman like Pamela Anderson is dealing with, you know, does she show up to work and deal with every single day? And she was doing it in a very retrospective way. And I think she managed to capture the essence of that particular time period for women celebrities, especially really well. Have you had a Have you had the chance to watch it funny
Fanny Wandel 16:29
I have. I unfortunately, also saw the PAM and Tommy series that came out last year that basically re exploited her re traumatized her. So to watch that her documentary was refreshing, it was so nice to see someone take control of their own narrative. And I guess with everything that we've done, it always is. I feel a little bit content when I finish something like that, like I just leave with a good for you sort of feeling. But of course, I'm always in the comment section. It's horrible. They're terrible. You're the lead leading that she has taken in the public sphere for reclaiming the narrative about her life, her decision making process. Yeah, it's mind blowing, because for the last 30 years, we've been exploiting her sexuality, and she's made nothing off of it.
Kate Bailey 17:23
That's so true. And I think this is where you can really clearly see an example of how men and women are treated completely differently with the same subject matter, right. So yeah, Tommy, Kobe, Tommy Lee. Yeah, he's loving. He's loving this series. He thinks it's cool.
Fanny Wandel 17:38
He's the Big Dig. Lectron like, got to hook up with Pamela Anderson. That's all he gets to be. Yeah, he
Kate Bailey 17:43
loves it. And he's posting his like junk on Instagram, again, like that. They went through the same thing. They make decisions together. But they are perceived completely differently by the society. We literally walk around. And now it's bizarre to see that and I've never seen a man like Tommy Lee have to step out and reclaim that image. You know, what men do? rehabilitate their image. That's their workplace in the public eye. They're like, I'm going to rehabilitate it man. Like, let's call Steven Bartlett. Let's get on one of these, like hotshot shows. Yeah, got it. They love it. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's very interesting to me.
Fanny Wandel 18:27
Absolutely. No. And you know, the stuff going on with Pamela right now. It's also ties in with another current pop culture issue that we're facing. And then we saw on the internet just a few weeks ago, and that was where a gamer a very prominent gamer was streaming live streaming his screen. And suddenly, people watching his stream, were able to see that he had a tab open on a website that had deep fake porn. And if you don't know what the fake is, it is where you use images of other people. And you use AI to create augmented fake porn, basically, it's awful. And a lot of women, once this was discovered, found themselves on this website and now have to pay a fortune in legal fees and have to go through the exhausting process of trying to get these things removed, it's probably going to take some of them years, you can't repair the damage that's already been done to them. And how violated they must feel. And again, much like was Pamela you had people out there being completely apathetic to it, laughing at their pain, and basically saying, you know, it is what it is and just let go of it. Yeah.
Kate Bailey 19:41
Yeah. And that that completely denies the person who's been violated that reality. They made a choice, right? And that's what everyone comes back at them with is like, Oh, well, you chose to be in the public eye. Like you kind of like you asked for it. Like, what does that sound familiar? Yeah, well, we're talking about consent.
Fanny Wandel 19:58
not totally sure anyone. I chose to be a part of fake augmented reality porn.
Kate Bailey 20:03
Yeah, but but for that for these people that are willing to say things like that, they're just coming from the perspective of like, well, this is like, a part of what you signed up for. Like, this is like, if you're a pretty woman, and you're a gamer, and you're a live streamer. Well, what? Take
Fanny Wandel 20:18
it back? Yeah, take it.
Kate Bailey 20:20
It's good publicity.
Fanny Wandel 20:22
Man up the whole thing, Happy International Women's Day, man up late. Yeah, the
Kate Bailey 20:27
thing is, is that it is a violation. And if you don't have the resources, or the know, how, what are you going to do? But I can guarantee you if you know, King Charles had a deep fake porn about him, right? How quickly that shit would be taken down and removed, because it's always about power access and resources to be able to deal with these things. Yeah. And we're creating an environment where we still live within a hyper sexualized culture. And this is just going to reinforce the values of the quote, real society, like the real life society with the digital society, which is to say, Well, women don't have any agency over how their image is used. And so be it. My warning sign for that is the like, I have a picture on LinkedIn. Okay. And I'm not saying people want to make deep fakes about me. But I want to point out the vulnerability of anyone with a photo anywhere on the goddamn internet. If you're a celebrity, and this is a high profile case, with media sniffing around and you can't get shit to happen, just plain Jane Doe just to use a term like that. Yeah. Has no hope. None. And if your employee is, you know, Googling you, it could be that that's what comes off. Yeah. And if the deep fakes good enough, there's no justification.
Fanny Wandel 21:50
No, there's also who's making money off of those deep fakes. That's also the thing. I mean,
Kate Bailey 21:54
we know it's men. Yeah. It's always men. And that's the thing. People are making money off women's bodies when women say, hey, actually, you know what? I'd like to make the money off my body. Yeah, you're a slug. Yeah. And you also should not complain when other people make money out of your body. I love Pamela Anderson.
Fanny Wandel 22:12
Yeah. Anyone on only fans getting shit every day.
Kate Bailey 22:15
Yeah. And this just brings it full circle, which is companies can perform whatever the fuck they want to perform with this Women's Day stuff. They can create these PR disasters and worse is when they create a PR disaster knowing that it's going to be because they like oh, this is even better. Do it because every other day of the year, we're getting the same amount of shitty writes that you've left us with from DDOT. Yeah, so fuck off, please. Hey, you. Yeah, you. Listen up. Workplace weekly is an entirely independent production funded by the commercial activities of hand and heart. We do not run any membership or subscriber options, but we ask you that. If you'd like to support our work, please share our work on socials. Tell your friends to listen to an episode and send them a link and rate review and subscribe to us on Spotify or Apple, maybe both one post or one share or one review make a huge difference. And if you would like to support us and appreciate the work we do, this is what we recommend you do to support us. Thank you so much for listening.
B Roll Video 23:33
Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high. It's a reading
Kate Bailey 23:47
Welcome to the corner of workplace weekly, we like to call the more you know, I'm speaking to my meme queens out there. Because that is a great meme. But it is true. The more you know, this segment is about telling you things that you might not know. Let's get into it. Now. We had planned a wholesome little history segment. And we will also going to record this segment to gather today. That being funny and myself. However, due to some bad weather and the trains shutting down, that is not possible today. That said I wanted to jump on here a little miffed little ticked off, if you will. I read a headline last night that basically shocked me. And it might shock you too. And the headline reads gender equality will take 300 years to achieve. UN chief warns 300 years 300 years and they wonder why we're a little cross a little ticked off. They wonder why we get a little, you know, uptight when they spend all of international women's day asking when International Men's Day is anyway this article reads a little like this As it continues with an optimistic theme, quote, progress towards gender equality is vanishing before our eyes. Secretary General Antonio Guterres told the commission of the status of women on Monday speaking to the key UN Women's rights groups ahead of International Women's Day on March 8, the director said that gender equality is 300 years away, according to the latest estimates from UN Women, the organization dedicated to gender equality and the empowerment of women. Now, one of the other quotes from this director, which I think is really poignant, centuries of patriarchy, discrimination and harmful stereotypes have created a huge gender gap in science and technology. Let's be clear, global frameworks are not working for the world's women and girls, they need to change. I agree with this man. I agree with this man. 300 years, 300 years and I'd have a quality a very privileged white woman, excuse me lower my taxes. I'm not getting an equal access to life. This is a scam, lower all of our taxes. And the thing that frustrates me quite a lot. And we posted a meme about this for International Women's Day last year, is that this could change tomorrow, those 300 years could become literally seven days, if the whole world took all of these things seriously, and said, We're just not going to allow this sort of subjugation to happen. It is so frustrating. We have the resources, we have the expertise, and we have plans. What we don't have is go ahead from power holders and stakeholders who all of these changes would be consequential and inconvenient for them. Anyway, let's return to our scheduled programming, which is a little bit of history about International Women's Day. And I'm gonna throw it to our beloved for anyone else to kick this history lesson off.
Fanny Wandel 27:07
The history of international Wednesdays unnecessarily political as it emerged from international socialist and Marxist activism in the early 20th century, International Women's Day from the beginning was about economic equality of women better and working conditions for women and suffrage. It was about rights and equal treatment of women in the workplace. Born from a pledge at the International socialist Women's Conference in 1907. To fight for equality in every aspect of life. In 1909. American socialists declared the last Sunday in February as National Women's Day the first International Women's Day held on March 18 1911. In Europe. The most dramatic celebration of International Women's Day was in 1907, where women led demonstrations from the factories and bread lines igniting the Russian Revolution. The Women's insurrection culminated in the SARS abdication within a matter of days, and suffrage not long thereafter, a Hallmark card or cupcake doesn't quite have the same gravitas. The events in Russia set the date for the celebration of International Women's Day, March 8 in Europe, and in 1922. International Women's Day was established as a communist holiday and remain so until the mid 1960s. Sometime between 1922 and 1967, International Women's Day became plural. In the 1970s Feminists infused International Women's Day with new meaning as women's groups were joined by leftist and labor organizations calling for equal pay, equal economic opportunity, equal legal rights, reproductive rights, subsidized childcare and the prevention of violence against women. The UN formally embraced International Women's Day in 1975 and in 1977 invited member states to declare March 8 as an official UN holiday for women's rights and world peace.
Kate Bailey 28:55
The UN's global theme for International Women's Day 2023 is digit all innovation and technology for gender equality exploring the impact of the digital gender gap on widening socio economic inequalities protecting women's rights in digital spaces, a competing theme for International Women's Day 2023 exists, and that is hashtag embrace equity, which aims to get the world talking about why equal opportunities aren't enough. This competing theme is presented by international women's day.com which ranks as number one on Google for, quote International Women's Day. The site is a marketing campaign, which is privately owned by management consultancy and funded by large corporations every year they launch a competing theme. Throughout the 21st century International Women's Day has seen a dilution and commercialization in the West. This is a great example we frequently see Women's Day cards, flowers and gifts among adornments used as means of quote, celebrating women, or vague performative marketing from corporations promoting general and vague notions of equity from those who steal Will haven't had equal representation on their boards and who engage in exploitative practices. International Women's Day has always been about economic rights, egalitarianism and radical social reform. It is necessarily political. International Women's Day is a day which marks the truly revolutionary achievements of many women in the name of social justice and equity. It is a day where we should collectively be compelled to recognize every other day of the year, a quote, strong woman is rather viewed as feisty, difficult, emotional, hysterical. I don't know just think about what you've been called in the last 24 hours. International Women's Day should serve as an inspiration for revolution, ultimately, a call to action, acknowledging the monumental progress made to date and achieved for modern society in our workplaces, while recognizing that every day our rights remain under threat and equity has not been achieved. That means that there are still revolutions to be had, we are yet to see a century of female suffrage in many countries, women are being killed for asserting their rights. The gender gap is widening, and women's rights are being eroded. Globally, institutional misogyny exists, and we are fighting for equity in our workplaces today. And every day, cupcakes are nice, but they cannot and should not. And plenty damn well will not distract us from our rights. Okay, so one of the thrilling things about having a new podcast format to work with is that we can have lots of unique and exciting segments. This next one is called workplace savage. I have been listening to Dan Savage, for most of my adult life, I think I love the guy and I love his podcast format, where he'll take a question and provide his expertise and experience. And I'm, I've been working in workplaces for a decade, you know, in this capacity that I'm in now, I'm an investigator. And I think I can help people with that little workplace problems, all that big workplace problems. So we're going to trail this format of workplace Savage, where anyone can send in any type of workplace question you may have. It can also be legal stuff, or whatever. And we'll do our best to give a thoughtful answer. And hopefully, it allows people to talk about things that maybe they don't even know it's a problem, but it makes them feel weird. Yeah. And then I can be like, Yo, that's a problem. Such a problem. Such a problem. Alright, so we're pleased cabbage.
Fanny Wandel 32:49
Yeah, we've got our first one already. It starts off Hi, I love my colleagues and my job. But I dislike my employer as an organization, largely due to its senior management, what to do,
Kate Bailey 33:01
what to do in deed. So I think this is a pretty common problem for people in the workplace these days. So you know, if you work for Tesla, that could be problematic for you, given how things have gone for the company, the litigation that's against them, and Elon Musk's behavior. If you work for Burger King, and they put out a tweet, like the International, you know, it creates these immediate feelings of disconnection from the type of person and professional that you want to be, and who's paying you to be that. So immediately, I can definitely see that this is something a lot of people would struggle with. And I do see and hear it a lot. And people want to have pride in where and where they work. Their priorities are changing. And I guess now we can get to the crux of the problem, which is, Will senior management, listen? So the first thing is, if they're not aware, that's the first part. Why is it because for this person, you know, is it because your colleagues do not raise these issues to senior management? Is there a disconnection where the senior management thing, everything's fine and dandy, and they're not aware of the discontent? And the second question would be, so let's say that they're not aware, how do you make them aware? This is where it can get really challenging because to go forward on your own and say, I take issue with XY and Z and as your employee, I would prefer we either take a different approach to these things. It's probably not going to go well, not just straight off the bat. Probably not. Probably not even the best employees in the world would sort of see that as being like, Okay. Also the level of like disgruntled Have that people ascribe to that is like, Oh, you're just like complaining about this tiny issue. So my first piece of advice would be to understand where your position and how you're feeling fits into the context of how your colleagues are feeling. So are your colleagues feeling the same way Do talk openly about that? What's happening? Because that's the opportunity to organize. Right? Yeah. So if it's coming down to core issues of principle, and like the way that senior management are doing things, you need to be very careful in your approach. And it needs to be presented as an opportunity. Collectively, working with colleagues to put something together, unifies immediately, the goal of going to senior management. And in that unity, the senior management should should probably won't take a little more time to assess what's being brought to them. Yeah, it allows you to vibe, check the way things are written, it allows everyone to like kind of condense the overall issues into things that are more of an opportunity for change. Now, let's say everything's going okay. And you've had this conversation with colleagues that you have the capacity to write something like this or to, you've decided you're going to go to the management, you should not only highlight the things that you take issue with, but present ideas that the workforce would be happy to assist implementing, to bring a solution to the problem. So not knowing what this person is specifically talking about, you would say we disagree with the approach we have to International Women's Day. Yeah, that tweet was disappointing. And we need to have better protocols in place to make sure that those things don't happen. We need to hire a diversity manager or like whatever. One of the big challenges with senior management is going in telling them what the problems are, and then telling you what the solution is. So you, however you present the problems you need to present. Also, the solution that you're happy with. A lot of people would say this is a list of demands. It is. Yeah. But if you say it as suggestions and things that the workforce are happy to implement, it kind of sets the tone for the conversation in a different way. Yep. So we've kind of moved through all of the parts of like, Are they aware? No, what do we do, then? The second thing is, are they aware? Yes. The next question should be why haven't they done anything about it? Yeah. Because that's going to add this question. And all of this leads you down to one clear point. So we could talk through all the variables. And I won't, I'm going to really get into this like Final question. Which is, if you go through all of this, and this company indicates to you that they're not willing to evolve, they're not willing to change, you can feel discontentment in yourself, but also in your colleagues, and the work environments, ours is not for you. Yeah. There's probably not a lot of companies. For a lot of people, we all have to make sacrifices and compromises. And if you go out on your own, like hand and heart and me in this business, there are other challenges that come with it. But ultimately, if you love your job, and you love your colleagues, but the people that you are directly engaged in the transaction with regarding your employment, are not going to do anything to change that transaction to a favorable one for you. You need to look elsewhere. Bottom line, which is the sad reality, and there are ways that you can implement questions into the recruiting process for yourself, that may give you a little bit of a better way to predict these red flags things around culture and development. Do you know questions that you would have asked your current employer? How'd you know in this their approach to certain things? Yeah. I think that's that's as workplace savage as I can get with that answer. Funny.
Fanny Wandel 39:23
Yeah, that was very well done. I'm not sure I can even add to it. I mean, I was going to say, you know, I feel like you're usually planning the solid professional route and I'm so used to the anarchy plan. See when the when and B fail, like then I'm ready to uproar.
Kate Bailey 39:39
Okay, so let's go into like the dream utopia where anarchy is accepted.
Fanny Wandel 39:45
Oh, then yeah, organized like
Kate Bailey 39:48
welcome walkouts like I'm talking walkout strikes.
Fanny Wandel 39:51
I mean, of course, we don't we're not working off of too much detail here. The other question I was going to ask is what sort of reporting process do they have? Do you as an employee know What not just you know? Do you as an employee? Know what's going to happen to you? Once you speak up at about an issue? What's the process afterwards? Because like, we've covered it so many ways. There's a ton of retaliation institutional betrayal occurs after you report incidences, because and especially in cases where the issue is senior management, it's workplace hot potato? And I don't know, you know, also, that's great that you love your colleagues. Do you trust your colleagues? Can you have conversations with them about this without it trickling to the wrong years without, because in my experience, organizing is really, really hard.
Kate Bailey 40:40
That's, that's all great points. And you said you had nothing to add. And this bitch just drops incredibly relevant information in here. The policy stuff I feel like is because you did a lot of policy work towards the end of last year for hand and heart. And it's such a great point to raise I was thinking very holistically. But that is absolutely something you need to be aware of when you're going through all of this. Trusting your colleagues. Great question. Great point of introspection. And then the second thing is that I forgot that we should add in here that if you start this organizing process, document everything, everything should be document always keep receipts, man, yep. BCC yourself to a personal email, download PDFs of everything. Habit filed away? Not on work devices, it is your data, you should be doing that. leave nothing to chance. No. But you know, hopefully you find a nice one.
Fanny Wandel 41:36
Yeah, hopefully, it's gonna be resolved for you. I wish you all the best, are helpful, right? Yeah. But we're just, we're going to explore every single angle to this is what I would say.
Kate Bailey 41:46
Yes, yeah, absolutely. Okay. So with that, we are going to have a few other different segments moving through the workplace weekly format. So in the future, we're going to have interviews with experts, people from the industry, activist people that are experienced in this space that we want to hear from and we think people will want to hear from, and we're also going to try another segment that involves a little bit of audience engagement. always tricky.
Fanny Wandel 42:16
Yeah. You've got a couple of those. Yeah, yeah.
Kate Bailey 42:18
I mean, we I think you've you've got a very engaged community, I think, and you've slowly nurtured that into the Han and her Instagram, which you should follow. But basically, what we want to do is hear your stories from the workplace. So the theme was, fuck you. I quit.
Fanny Wandel 42:35
Back you I quit. It's we want to hear from you. The incidences at your workplace that made you say, it's just not worth it anymore? Yes. Yes.
Kate Bailey 42:45
And, and the little things that you've done to maybe get a little bit of a little bit of a one up a little bit of redemption? Yeah. So if any of you got you got anything that you think is a good example here from your own little industrial waste bin of bullshit.
Fanny Wandel 42:58
Yeah, I mean, hey, only taken from my own personal experiences my besides this one, the only jobs I've ever had have been in bars, and I have twice experienced handing in notice. And then during my notice, period, my bosses tried to fire me. That's so weird. Ahem, they get very mad. It's very weird, and then suddenly becomes very hostile to weeks. And you're sort of like, I'm sorry, I'm going to university. Like it's not a personal dig at you. But yeah, certainly, that's happened to me. And I think the first time that happened, I had found another job put in my notice. It was a horrible manager, who definitely thought that the female bartenders were within his dating pool. And then maybe a couple of weeks after I left, then I got a text message from set manager asked me to come in and work a shift and I let him have it. I was 21 Yeah, I was 21 It's totally okay. I'm not ashamed. And I need to find that phone because that can totally be workplace weekly material if I find the screenshot, what not to do if you're above 21 Yeah,
Kate Bailey 44:14
and as far as I understand this story as well, I mean, you're like let him have it be you also heard on the grapevine that he was shot I'm
Fanny Wandel 44:22
had he was so surprised. I was I couldn't believe it. This is was this was a married man, who would then bring in his girlfriend's to the bar, fine. Not my problem, prerogative, whatever, pretty shitty of you. But then, on top of that, then hitting on all the younger female bartenders had a kiss planted on me once had to multiple times was told to go dance with his buddies while got to drink quite cheaply at the bar. And yeah, apparently he did not understand where all my anger was coming from.
Kate Bailey 44:57
This is what astounds me, dude. I I said it to you when we were discussing it earlier. But when the only thing I believe men who are accused of wrongdoing about is that they're shocked when they hear about the wrongdoing wrongdoings because I think it's entirely indicative of that complete lack of self awareness. So that's the only fucking thing I believe these guys on. Yeah, I'm like, I believe you are shocked. Yeah, this and that someone was displeased with the way you treated them, or traumatized or whatever filing a police report.
Fanny Wandel 45:31
I mean, crazy. Clearly I was the problem, because who would have thought but fuck I lost my train of thought. Well,
Kate Bailey 45:41
yeah, clearly you were the
Fanny Wandel 45:42
problem. Clearly it was a problem. I mean, a 40 year old manager kissing his 20 year old bartender like, what's wrong with that? I don't see a problem.
45:49
Yeah, no, no, I
Kate Bailey 45:51
wouldn't be shocked if someone told me that was a problem. Yeah. Well, speaking of people who were shocked to be told they were the problem. I've got a good one. And this is much more on the spectrum of me getting a little bit back a little bit of that redemption, because I want to hear all these pissy little things people do in the workplace just to get a little, little one up these little email battles and stuff. So I had a I was on contract with a tech company in Berlin, and kind of everything went wildly to shit. Like I can't legally go into too much data. Long story short, a senior person gets accused of sexual harassment. This goes public. And essentially, I'm roped into it because the person who was accused who was my direct report, the person I was, you know, contracted to report to that they had been set up by another senior person who wanted their job. All right. So basically, this senior guy accused of the misconduct, and I wasn't in an investigatory position, I just have to make clear, okay, basically, like starts calling me and wants to call me as a witness because this person that he believed in, set them up had bullied me, actually, and had said some pretty heinous things about me. So long story short, I ended up spending hours with this guy, and his like, back and forth with like, legal shit and how I'm going to support the situation. Because that was kind of the way I perceived it. And he definitely had put it into my head. This person, very much was out to get me as well. Which I could believe because this person had been bullying me. Anyway, turns out, motherfucker was lying about everything, of course. So all of those hours on the phone, all of the gaslighting everything he was lying about, except the truthful things that he told me what this other person did. So once it all settled, I decided to send this prick and emotional labor invoice because the amount of time this man took from my life, so I went back through and itemized, like, all of the time we spent on the phone together, I like literally put in like, you know, the what is it called? Like, when you like? Just yeah, you notarize itemize everything. Yeah, itemized, like, you know, two and a half hours listening to your gaslighting of XYZ blah, blah, blah, blah,
Fanny Wandel 48:25
wow, how do you take it?
Kate Bailey 48:28
Not good? No, that's shocking. refuse to pay, that invoice is still open. So motherfucker, if you are watching, I might send you a follow up and ask if you're going to get that ship paid. How many years interest is that invoice of 2018. So five years of interest. I'm coming for you. If I see you on any fitness tech podcast again, look at Gotcha. But I just have to say it was about like this man traumatize me genuinely. And people relate to that who are listening to this, I think. And it was a little way of taking back the power and also being like, I don't care what you think that power dynamic between us is gone. And I don't respect you and what you did was wrong. And I know you're not going to do anything about it. But I know that I've said it. Yeah. And that's it. And that's sometimes what it's about. That's what those little victories are about.
Fanny Wandel 49:24
Sometimes that needs to be enough, you're not always going to get what you want out of people. So you know, like I said, you always have to find closure on your own.
Kate Bailey 49:34
Exactly. You define your closure, because ultimately closure is a boundary when you think about it. Yeah. So you have to really be the one to define that. And I think in workplaces, we are often left to feel so powerless, that we don't think we're in control of that. Yeah. Every time you think you're not in control of it. Just remember, I send an emotional labor invoice to a grown ass man
Fanny Wandel 49:54
and you can too and you can
Kate Bailey 49:58
not wear clothes in this way.
Fanny Wandel 50:00
up way up yeah thank you so much KB
Kate Bailey 50:02
thank you so much funny and we will see everyone for the next installment of workplace weekly workplace weekly was produced by Kate Bailey and funny one doll for hand and hot media the publishing arm of hand and hawk and behold, you can follow hand and hop on Instagram via at hand and heart to AU via at h underscore and underscore page media. Any inquiries related to this broadcast, please email admin at hand and hot.edu. Our music was composed and performed by Amanda and produced by Amanda with Kyle startup. You can follow Amanda on Instagram or listen to their music on Spotify, Apple or SoundCloud. If you love Amanda's music, please consider buying it from Bandcamp support Andy always our artwork was created by NYX Renton, a fantastic photographer and graphic designer and you can find them in the links in the episode description. You can always find workplace weekly on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, SoundCloud, and Vimeo and basically wherever you get your podcasts for those wanting an RSS feed, the link is in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening
